33 replies to this topic

[maher]

OK, this is probably a very dumb question, but it bother me from a long time :

I thought that most modern render engines take into account only visible polygons. I understand that when doing GI, invisible objects and polygons into a scene can contribute indirectly to the lightning of visible polygons.

I understand also that in a multi-million polygons scenes, you selectively and manually, remove objects that doesn't matter too much in the scene when they are out of the camera field, for faster rendering time.

My question is, why don't someone code the rendering engine so that happen automatically, in a first pass calculation, removing polygons that are at out of the field from some defined distance or angle? Why not reducing automatically those objects by decimating their polygons counts in the same way, when it is important to take them into account for GI secondary influence?

Maher

[Tomas Egger]

Ola Maher,

In reality Camera doesnt render what it doesnt see, it have this kind of optimization, but Camera or any 3d render to do a proper GI calculation, it need to load everything in RAM.
But that was Camera 8, lets see what Camera 9 will bring to us.

Thanks

Tom

[supernova]

im not into architectural rendering, but my 20 yrs motion graphics animation experience does tell me at least ONE maybe TWO major things missing in the suggestions for Buggsy.

#1  if you are rendering animation with the plan of making it look its absolute best...  than you 'also' need the most and best control post render... and that hands down is Adobe After Effects.  Final Cut and Premiere are toys
      compared to AE and its capabilties.  Hollywood, and the animation world is littered with people searching for the holy grail in 3d rendering times and quality, when proper planning and compositing is how most of the
      big boys do it.   If you are creating a long form show, film or movie.... fine... place things in those apps for simple editing or color correction... but in the hands of an artist.... not an engineer.... After Effects is your silver bullet
      to keeping 3d in check.... not to mention rendering and composting smartly tends to make client revisions much easier to swallow.

#2  Render times... LOL... I have a pretty simple formula... since I set up my 3d to render when I go to sleep...  I max out settings and do the math so the right number of frames are ready for me 10 hrs later when I wake up... not scientific.... but
      it is efficient....  5 mins for 1280x720   and 10 mins for 1920 x 1080 sound good to me....    I

      oh... and Tomas.... we are ALL WAITING to see anything about Camera 9 EI 9 anything 9 as soon as possible...   keep working hard and dont forget to update your loyal users once in a while please..

Thanks...

Scott

[Tomas Egger]

Ola Scott,

We are taking more time than we wanted in our last optimization..

Thanks

Tom

[Buggsy]

Ok.............

First animation preview. I have separated the external yard etc so excuse the black outside as there will be plants in it and I am going to render it hopefully without raytracing to speed things up on a second pass. The first 5 seconds has the final resolution but downsized for Youtube at 360p.

I'm making headway. I have ended up with an average time per frame of 38mins at 1920x1080. 5 seconds (25 frames per second) is taking around 20 hours rendering time on 4 instances of Camera. This is almost bearable given the quality that I'm getting. If I had a second iMac i7 I think I'd be happy.

No shaders at all, I removed the reflections from the internal walls and optimised lighting and shadows by consolidating lighting into 1 light per 4 down lights. I'm also rendering out of EI using the Quicktime Codec "PNG" and then outputting from Final Cut Express HD as H.264.

Give me your comments and more tips would be great for quicker rendering times.

Find here link to first preview:


Michael

[Tomas Egger]

Ola Michael!!

Really nice, I cant see all the details due the Youtube compression, please, create a Vimeo.com page too, there you can post a better quality

Thanks

Tom

[RichardJoly]

This is really nice Michael! Beautiful architecture design well rendered. It will be a real seller for your customers.
Here is my suggestion: The first two sequences travel a little too much into the apartment. I see these type of interior movements as someone walking one or two meters with a head turn.

[S. Houtzager]

Looking really good Michael!
I would suggest that you look at the HD youtube, I have not tried to post to that. I post a Quicktime movie on a html page as I know a bit about web pages.

Also, you will need to have the trees on a separate plane as the sky as you will pick up the flatness with camera spin.

For interiors I really try to work in camera spin along with moving along a path (as you have). It gives the animation much more depth. It is a bit fast. It is picking up the speculars and other reflections well. Flying over furniture is fine. You might have some GI sizzle on the white couch which is an age old issue. You could try increasing the sampling there.

[Tomas Egger]

Ola Steven,

In reality, you can improve the GI sizzle in the couch increasing the Color Tolerance (GI window) from 1.0 to something like 3.0.

Thanks

Tom

[S. Houtzager]

Ola!

Color tolerance makes sense as it will add more rays on the curved surfaces. I have also had some luck just getting rid of the gap between objects. Here is a test that I did http://intuitionusa....White_Model.pdf

[Buggsy]

Ola Michael!!

Really nice, I cant see all the details due the Youtube compression, please, create a Vimeo.com page too, there you can post a better quality

Thanks

Tom

Tom, I am still rendering the final animation including the second pass. Once I'v finished I'll post it in Vimeo also. Thanks for you help.

This is really nice Michael! Beautiful architecture design well rendered. It will be a real seller for your customers.
Here is my suggestion: The first two sequences travel a little too much into the apartment. I see these type of interior movements as someone walking one or two meters with a head turn.

Thanks Richard. Not my design with the unit, only the interior items. Your camera movement ideas are a different approach than my thinking. I'll explore small movements with more looking around the unit. Thanks for your comments.

Looking really good Michael!
I would suggest that you look at the HD youtube, I have not tried to post to that. I post a Quicktime movie on a html page as I know a bit about web pages.

Also, you will need to have the trees on a separate plane as the sky as you will pick up the flatness with camera spin.

For interiors I really try to work in camera spin along with moving along a path (as you have). It gives the animation much more depth. It is a bit fast. It is picking up the speculars and other reflections well. Flying over furniture is fine. You might have some GI sizzle on the white couch which is an age old issue. You could try increasing the sampling there.

Other people have commented that the first two parts are a bit to fast. I kind of like the variation in speed but need to develop a better understanding of whether it is a viewer orientated preference or a specific approach 'needed' for architecture. I think slower camera movements give a sense of prestige. I'd like to know others thoughts on this.

Ola Steven,

In reality, you can improve the GI sizzle in the couch increasing the Color Tolerance (GI window) from 1.0 to something like 3.0.

Thanks

Tom

I have 4.0 Color Tolerance but there is still some sizzle.


Michael

[Tomas Egger]

Ola Michael,

Clear, so, Camera 8 reached the limit with Color Tolerance setting, lets wait Camera 9.

Thanks

Tom

[Buggsy]

Here's my final product. Your constructive comments would be welcome.

There is room for improvement and it has everything to do with colour correction and quality of final output. I'm guessing it is due to the video editing software and my skill level. I'm sure they will improve as I do more and more of these. I am having so much trouble controlling gamma, colour saturation, colour variations, namely reds turning a slight purple tinge and the resulting video looking a little blue.



Michael

[Tomas Egger]

Ola Michael!!

You are learning fast and its becoming more and more better!

CONGRATS!!!

Thanks

Tom