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Buggsy

Getting Rhino models into EI

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Hi,

 

Is there a work-flow for getting models out of Rhino into EI.

 

Welded and imported .obj and .3ds models produce inconsistant results when applying bump maps to the imported models.

 

Michael

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Most of the meshing that Rhino does works for me using an obj export.  Sometimes if I have an amorphic product I will need to run it thru EI modeler and let it do the tesselation.  As a rule, EI modeler "always" does a better job of creating a mesh. 

 

Out of Rhino and into EI modeler I use ACIS sat default.  Then into FormZ and get to ACIS 6 which modeler can read.  Rhino does not have ACIS 6 for some reason.  Maybe one of the other ACIS settings it has will work.  I believe EI modeler is ACIS based.

 

I have gotten in the habit of importing my parts into EI and spinning them around and looking for inconsistent a.k.a. weird shading.  I wish there were an auto reflection setting that some programs have.  The weirdly shaded objects will be an issue in EI and have a bad mesh.

 

Post a snap of the object in EI.

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I have been using the Rhino Beta for the Mac and I noticed too that the export tessellation wasn't alway smooth - lots of T junctions. In the past I have usually used the Maximum Angle to adjust the density of the model - When exporting from Rhino I started using the "Maximum Distance, surface to edge" sorta does the same thing but for some reason the tessellation is usually much better.

 

brian

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Hi Steve,

 

I had to read your post a couple of times to realise you used the words 'EI modeller'.

 

Unlike a lot of EI users, that have been wailing and lamenting the loss of modeller, I moved on to the latest operating systems and the software and considered that having an old G5 around, just to use an unsupported application, wasn't the most clever thing to do! I was one of those users that was frustrated by the many failings of EI modeller and don't have it on my computer nor care to exhume it.

 

EI has great model import functions now, I just don't get why it won't work for me with Rhino. Is there a cardinal rule that I am violating when I export my model, am I missing an import check box that will remedy the problem, or is this something that floats out their in the ether that no one has an answer for. I have imported numerous purchased models since v9.1, all with mostly intact UV functions and no known bump map problems to-date. I am looking for a modeller and work-flow that I can count on and I'm not sure that this is it.

 

This is the situation. I am beginning to re-creating a model in Rhino that I did in ArchiCAD but thought I'd check first there were no inconsistencies. Good thing I did. I am apply the same bump map, to this new imported model from Rhino, that I had applied to my ArchiCAD model and it looks totally wrong. This is it:

 

Rhino-model-bump-problem.jpg

 

Even with Silo I had issues. There is plenty of talk about modelling programs and whether they suit your needs but it appears as though actually being usable with EI is the fundamental flaw that prevents me from parting with cash for a dedicated modeller. I don't wish to be stuck with a piece of software more fit to be a boat anchor then a trusted piece of production equipment. It appears to me that expecting consistent results from one modelling program to the next is a sure-fire way to waste money.

 

I really need help with this, not because the project is important to my income producing capacity but because I thought I had finally found a modelling program that I can bring into my work-flow, only now to watch it fade away with each use of it.

 

Michael

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Brian has more experience going directly out of Rhino to EI. 

 

I too create meshes where the polygons are little tiny squares instead of long triangles.  Work better.  EI can handle lots of polygons so it usually doesn't bog it down.  I use EI modeler to control the mesh and yep I keep an old machine around for that and GoLive V9 and Freehand.  Still have a web site or two that I use GoLive on.

 

Good luck. 

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Thanks Steve, I'll try some of Brian's suggestions and hopefully find a solution. If I do, I'll post it here.

 

 

Many Thanks

Michael

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I can't figure it out! I'm sure I've tried just about every conceivable option and I can get it to work.

 

It seems to be that the bump map on the Rhino model has serious problems the finer I make the texture. I did a test where I enlarged the bump map on both models to see what was happening at the edge zone of the bump. On first glance it looked the same but I noticed the reflections were different and the bump value I needed to apply in EI is 100 times less sensitive on the Rhino model. My ArchiCAD model has a bump value of .001 and the Rhino models a value of .1 and maybe the sensitivity of this value is playing into the final result, I don't know?

 

I removed the bump map and cranked up the reflectivity and it appears to represent properly the same as the ArchiCAD model.

 

I tried all other possible model formats (within the limits of my operating systems and current software) to no avail.

 

I also tried converting the poly-surface model to a mesh with greater poly counts but no joy!

 

I really wish this would work. Being a Mac Beta version and a relatively intuitive piece of software to use makes it disappointing that I can't rely on it working in EI...arrrrrggh.

 

Michael

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Yay (I can never figure out how to spell that), I got it to work!!

 

It was a magical little button I wasn't pushing... kind-of.

 

When I import the model I was allowing it to come in according to the modelled scale. Instead I forced it to be scaled in the 'Import Option' dialog that nows pops up in EI v9.1 allowing import settings to me modified. In the 'Transform' menu I set 'Use Scale' to '0.01' instead of leaving at '1.0' and voila, beautiful bumpy panels! The difference in the top left of the Rhino model, in the following image, is just variation in the scene lighting. Also the bump map scale is now the same on both models.

 

Rhino-model-bump-problem-fix.jpg

 

 

Michael

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Hi Michael,

You could try Meshlabs (Mac and PC) as a go between from Rhino to .obj into formZ.

I've had some surprising success with this, especially keeping UV's intact.

Its free.

 

Polytrans (PC only) seems by far the best but it costs. If you want to know anything contact support at Okino and I'm sure Robert would be straight onto it.

Polytrans has got me out of all sorts of problems. Even with Max files.

 

That way you could still use Rhino and get it into EIAS as you like.

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Yay (I can never figure out how to spell that), I got it to work!!

 

It was a magical little button I wasn't pushing... kind-of.

 

When I import the model I was allowing it to come in according to the modelled scale. Instead I forced it to be scaled in the 'Import Option' dialog that nows pops up in EI v9.1 allowing import settings to me modified. In the 'Transform' menu I set 'Use Scale' to '0.01' instead of leaving at '1.0' and voila, beautiful bumpy panels! The difference in the top left of the Rhino model, in the following image, is just variation in the scene lighting. Also the bump map scale is now the same on both models.

 

Rhino-model-bump-problem-fix.jpg

 

 

Michael

Hi Michael, What was the file format you used to import into EIAS? Sorry if I missed this somewhere in the thread.

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